PDA

View Full Version : Supreme Court strikes down death penalty for juveniles


Tzarina
March 2nd, 2005, 09:22 PM
Supreme Court strikes down death penalty for juveniles


WASHINGTON (AP) — A closely divided Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that it's unconstitutional to execute juvenile killers, ending a practice in 19 states that has been roundly condemned by many of America's closest allies.

The 5-4 decision throws out the death sentences of 72 murderers who were under 18 when they committed their crimes and bars states from seeking to execute minors for future crimes.

The executions, the court said, violate the Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"The age of 18 is the point where society draws the line for many purposes between childhood and adulthood. It is, we conclude, the age at which the line for death eligibility ought to rest," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote.
The ruling continues the court's practice of narrowing the scope of the death penalty, which justices reinstated in 1976. Executions for those 15 and younger when they committed their crimes were outlawed in 1988. Three years ago justices banned death sentences for the mentally retarded.

Tuesday's ruling prevents states from making 16- and 17-year-olds eligible for execution.

As a result, officials in Prince William County, Va., said Tuesday they will not prosecute a murder case there against teen sniper Lee Boyd Malvo, who is already serving life in prison in two of the 10 sniper killings that terrorized the Washington area in 2002. Prince William County Commonwealth's Attorney Paul Ebert had hoped to get the death penalty for Malvo, who was 17 at the time of the killings, but said another trial would now be an unnecessary expense.

Juvenile offenders have been put to death in recent years in only a few other countries, including Iran, Pakistan, China and Saudi Arabia. Kennedy cited international opposition to the practice.

"It is proper that we acknowledge the overwhelming weight of international opinion against the juvenile death penalty, resting in large part on the understanding that the instability and emotional imbalance of young people may often be a factor in the crime," he wrote.

Kennedy noted most states don't allow the execution of juvenile killers and those that do use the penalty infrequently. The trend, he said, is to abolish the practice because "our society views juveniles ... as categorically less culpable than the average criminal."

In a dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia disputed that there is a trend and chastised his colleagues for taking power from the states.

"The court says in so many words that what our people's laws say about the issue does not, in the last analysis, matter: 'In the end our own judgment will be brought to bear on the question of the acceptability of the death penalty,"' he wrote.

"The court thus proclaims itself sole arbiter of our nation's moral standards," Scalia wrote.

Death penalty opponents quickly cheered the ruling.

"Today, the court repudiated the misguided idea that the United States can pledge to leave no child behind while simultaneously exiling children to the death chamber," said William F. Schulz, executive director of Amnesty International USA.

"Now the U.S. can proudly remove its name from the embarrassing list of human rights violators that includes China, Iran, and Pakistan that still execute juvenile offenders," he said.

Dianne Clements, president of the Houston-based Justice for All victims' advocacy group, criticized the decision and said she hopes that when there is a Supreme Court vacancy a strong death penalty supporter is nominated.

"The Supreme Court has opened the door for more innocent people to suffer by 16 and 17 year olds," she said. "I can't wait for the Supreme Court to have judges more concerned with American values, American statutes and American law than what the Europeans think."

The Supreme Court has permitted states to impose capital punishment since 1976. Twenty-two of the people put to death since then were juveniles when they committed their crimes. Texas executed the most, 13, and also has the most on death row now -- 29.

More than 3,400 inmates await execution in the 38 states that allow death sentences.

Justices were called on to draw an age line for executions after Missouri's highest court overturned the death sentence given to Christopher Simmons, who was 17 when he kidnapped a neighbor, hog-tied her and threw her off a bridge in 1993. Prosecutors say he planned the burglary and killing of Shirley Crook and bragged that he could get away with it because of his age.

The four most liberal Supreme Court justices -- John Paul Stevens, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer -- had gone on record in 2002 opposing the death penalty for juveniles, calling it "shameful." Those four, joined by Kennedy, formed Tuesday's decision.

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justice Clarence Thomas joined Scalia in seeking to uphold the executions.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor filed a separate dissent, arguing that a blanket rule against juvenile executions was misguided. Case-by-case determinations of a young offenders' maturity is the better approach, she wrote.

"The court's analysis is premised on differences in the aggregate between juveniles and adults, which frequently do not hold true when comparing individuals," she said. "Chronological age is not an unfailing measure of psychological development, and common experience suggests that many 17-year-olds are more mature than the average young 'adult."'

The 19 states allow executions for people under age 18 are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Utah, Texas and Virginia.

The federal government does not execute juveniles.

The case is Roper v. Simmons, 03-633.

EtchedInCold
March 3rd, 2005, 02:13 PM
if you do something bad enough to be consdiered for the death penalty, i think you should be able to die for it.

Capt
March 3rd, 2005, 02:17 PM
no death penalty in Canada

EtchedInCold
March 3rd, 2005, 02:42 PM
so if i take someone from america and kill him there i cant be killed?
never mind the fact that there's no Death penalty in Michigan...

Tzarina
March 4th, 2005, 12:11 AM
Come to Arizona, they'll execute you here, and Texas practically has a drive through express execution system... :rolleyes2

EtchedInCold
March 4th, 2005, 09:58 AM
you know Florida (i think) still has hanging on the books?

iha
March 4th, 2005, 10:10 AM
you know Florida (i think) still has hanging on the books?
So do other states.

I'm not sure if I agree w/ the death penalty or not. It kinda seends wrong.

I read a book by Jessie Jackson opposing it, maybe that's where I messed up.

Mufumonk
March 4th, 2005, 10:27 AM
So do other states.

I'm not sure if I agree w/ the death penalty or not. It kinda seends wrong.




Even for Lee Malvo, who benefits from this law?

Capt
March 4th, 2005, 11:17 AM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/lethal-injection-map.gif

Tzarina
March 4th, 2005, 11:41 AM
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/lethal-injection-map.gif
Yea, Firing Squad...
Ohh, I want to be on a firing squad, but only if I am able to pick who we shoot... :sniper:

iha
March 4th, 2005, 03:44 PM
That Map is outdated. We here in Alabama no longer fry people.

Tzarina
March 4th, 2005, 03:51 PM
That Map is outdated. We here in Alabama no longer fry people.
Ah, and I thought ya'll were still eating them after you fried them... :loon:




joke disclaimer

Mufumonk
March 4th, 2005, 03:53 PM
That Map is outdated. We here in Alabama no longer fry people.


I'm curious how you feel about Lee Malvo getting to live because of this law.

Tzarina
March 4th, 2005, 11:31 PM
I'm curious how you feel about Lee Malvo getting to live because of this law.
:hmm: Maybe some people should die...

iha
March 5th, 2005, 01:49 AM
I'm curious how you feel about Lee Malvo getting to live because of this law.
Well I don't know. My whole life I've been for the death penalty just because both of my parents are strongly for it. I never thought much about it for myself. My only conflict is that it doesn't seem like it should be another human's right to decide when someone's life should end. My mom says that some people have "lost their right to live", but how are we to judge when that right has been lost?

All in all, I think it's okay. There are some things about it that I don't quite understand, and probably have no way of understanding. But obviously it seems people like Timmothy Mcvey should recieve a maximum punishment of sometime.. i.e. death. My dad even thinks they should torture people like that lol.

Really my conflict with it isn't a case by case basis, so with Lee Malvo I would say the same thing.. I don't see how a human knows when it's time for someone to die. BUT I still agree with the death penalty for people such as him.

When it comes down to it, if someone killed a family member of mine, I would hope they would recieve death themselves.

I'm really tired, so this probably is very confusing.

iha
March 5th, 2005, 01:51 AM
joke disclaimer
LAME :rolleyes:

lol :biggrin: :lol:

Tzarina
March 5th, 2005, 01:58 AM
LAME :rolleyes:

lol :biggrin: :lol:
Yes, I know... :blush:
It appears though that my jokes are often lost on people, and a disclaimer to begin with will stop me from haing to go back and post an explanation AGAIN... :cry:

iha
March 5th, 2005, 02:09 AM
Yes, I know... :blush:
It appears though that my jokes are often lost on people, and a disclaimer to begin with will stop me from haing to go back and post an explanation AGAIN... :cry:
I quoted the wrong thing. I meant to say the Joke was lame, not the disclaimer. :wink:

greg
March 5th, 2005, 03:03 PM
kill the jits!

Tzarina
March 5th, 2005, 04:36 PM
I quoted the wrong thing. I meant to say the Joke was lame, not the disclaimer. :wink:
Oh well, all my jokes are lame :shrug:

I'm just not funny to anyone but meself... :laugh:

Capt
March 5th, 2005, 05:14 PM
Yea, Firing Squad...
Ohh, I want to be on a firing squad, but only if I am able to pick who we shoot... :sniper:
i think the lesson that we should learn from that map is: don't fuck around in oklahoma

jazz
March 5th, 2005, 06:32 PM
Supreme Court strikes down death penalty for juveniles

WASHINGTON (AP) — A closely divided Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that it's unconstitutional to execute juvenile killers, ending a practice in 19 states that has been roundly condemned by many of America's closest allies.

The 5-4 decision throws out the death sentences of 72 murderers who were under 18 when they committed their crimes and bars states from seeking to execute minors for future crimes.

DAMN!

Mech
March 5th, 2005, 06:57 PM
Yea, Firing Squad...
Ohh, I want to be on a firing squad, but only if I am able to pick who we shoot... :sniper:

I thought that a firing squad was a number of people with guns, but only one had live ammunition in it, the rest have blanks. This way, the person doesn't know that he killed another person, if they all aim at the same target.

iha
March 5th, 2005, 07:51 PM
Oh well, all my jokes are lame :shrug:

I'm just not funny to anyone but meself... :laugh:
Or maybe I was just subconsciously offended. :ninja:

iha
March 5th, 2005, 07:52 PM
i think the lesson that we should learn from that map is: don't fuck around in oklahoma
ha, they'll kill you 3 different ways.

Capt
March 5th, 2005, 07:58 PM
i wonder if its case by case or all three at once

Tzarina
March 5th, 2005, 08:16 PM
I thought that a firing squad was a number of people with guns, but only one had live ammunition in it, the rest have blanks. This way, the person doesn't know that he killed another person, if they all aim at the same target.
Yes, but I want to always be the individual with the live ammunition... :dual:

Or maybe I was just subconsciously offended. :ninja:
Oh, I'm sorry :sad: I wouldn't mean to offend, but jokes about Alabama are easy to come up with sometimes :blush:
I apologize though...

iha
March 5th, 2005, 11:11 PM
Oh, I'm sorry :sad: I wouldn't mean to offend, but jokes about Alabama are easy to come up with sometimes :blush:
I apologize though...
Lol that was a joke. Make fun of Alabamians all you want. Where I'm from (Tuscaloosa) I don't see where the stereotypes come from, but where I go to school I certainily do :)

I wasn't offended at all :peace:

Here's some material you can use. My 6th grade history teacher made us do a family tree project, and she found out that not to far down in her geneology 2 first cousins married and had kids. :lol:

Tzarina
March 6th, 2005, 02:31 AM
Lol that was a joke. Make fun of Alabamians all you want. Where I'm from (Tuscaloosa) I don't see where the stereotypes come from, but where I go to school I certainily do :)

I wasn't offended at all :peace:

Here's some material you can use. My 6th grade history teacher made us do a family tree project, and she found out that not to far down in her geneology 2 first cousins married and had kids. :lol:
OMFG, now THAT is funny, but scary... :devil:

mud_
March 7th, 2005, 03:49 AM
I'm curious how you feel about Lee Malvo getting to live because of this law.

i'd feel fine as long as i knew he was never getting out of wherever he was

about 8 years ago there was this guy named Martin Bryant, he went on a bit of a shooting spree in Port Arthur , Tasmania , a tourist spot and historically significant place

also, AUstralia hasnt had a death penalty for as long as ive been alive and no ones spat a dummy about it

anyway, after martin bryant killed a whole bunch of men, women and children there WAS a small call for the death penalty but that was pretty much shit on over night.

Australia (and i guess and canada [fuck NZ]) are proof that a society can function beautifully without a death penalty.

its NEVER in the name of justice, its ALWAYS based purely in emotion

CloserToGod
March 7th, 2005, 10:18 AM
I don't really like the death penalty. I've always been in favor of the dark chamber in Shawshank Redemption (sp?). Nothing but darkness.

iha
March 7th, 2005, 10:53 AM
The death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent for other criminals, but something tells me that if someone wants to kill someone, they're already not thinking logically enough to consider the pro's and con's of life in jail vs. death.

Tzarina
March 7th, 2005, 09:21 PM
its NEVER in the name of justice, its ALWAYS based purely in emotion

:nod: Most definately...

The death penalty is supposed to be a deterrent for other criminals, but something tells me that if someone wants to kill someone, they're already not thinking logically enough to consider the pro's and con's of life in jail vs. death.
True, in an emotional situation. But not all murder is quick reaction, many are premeditated. So, once again, the death penalty is not a deterrant. Why do some spend miticulous time planning a murder? Or any crime? So they won't be caught...
So, even when thinking of the death penalty, it seems to become irrelevant to whether or not an individual commits murder. Just think, if Bundy wouldn't have committed murder in Fla... he'd still be alive in Wa, or Colorado today :shrug: Do we want that?

Tough issue to decide, on one hand revenge is always involved... eye for an eye BS...
On the other hand, there are 6 billion people on earth, most of whom are most likely not murderers, why waste resources to "throw away the key?"
:shrug:

So, if violent rape became a capital offense, would that be a deterrant for rapists?

I don't think so, these are psychomotivated crimes that will occur no matter the punishment, well maybe fewer if we just castrated them... but yea.