Terri Schiavo , should she be allowed to die?

[Pudie]

For those of you who don't know about this case here's a quick summary.

Terri Schiavo had a heart attack 10(?) years ago triggerd by her eating disorder which stopped oxygen going to her brain and left her braindead. She's little more then a vegetable now.

Her husband , remarried with a family , wants to take out her feeding tube and let her die. Claming that's what she would have wanted. Her parents , both devout Catholics , clam she wouldnt have wanted that and are fighting to keep the tube in.

Because assisted suicide is illegal they would have to take out the feeding tube. Some loophole or something doesnt consider that assisted suicide. But if it was taken out then she would die of starvation and dehydration after around 2 weeks.


Personaly , I think she should be allowed to die. Sure letting her starve to death is inhuman , but not more then letter her live in the current state she's in. I see no real reason to keep her alive outside of the parents own selfish needs , which I stil understand just don't really agree with.

[EtchedInCold]

i think she should be allowed to die. what's the point of keeping her alive? there's no chance of her returning to the way she used to be.

[KenKill75]

Allowed to die? Nobody fucking tells me if and when I die.

[MAGO]

Allowed to die? Nobody fucking tells me if and when I die.


i don't think they should let her starve to death.....

[Pudie]

Allowed to die? Nobody fucking tells me if and when I die.
Would you want to live in that state?

[Mufumonk]

I think she should be allowed to die, but I don't agree with how they are going about doing it. I wouldn't starve her to death. She should be put to sleep.

[MAGO]

I think she should be allowed to die, but I don't agree with how they are going about doing it. I wouldn't starve her to death. She should be put to sleep.

exactly....

[Pudie]

exactly....
That's illegal though. I agree , it's just out of the question.

[Godless]

Allowed to die? Nobody fucking tells me if and when I die.
Allowing someone to die and telling someone to die are two totally different things.

[MAGO]

That's illegal though. I agree , it's just out of the question.

yeah but letting her dehydrate and starve to death is a horrible way to go...not even criminals on death row get that sentence...

[Godless]

Three words.....rock, paper, scissors

[EtchedInCold]

i wouldn't stone her, i don't see where you're going with paper, but we could cut the feeding tube with scissors.

[Tzarina]

i don't think they should let her starve to death.....
This is how I feel also. Even the doctors can not agree on whether she does or does not feel things. What is the point of modern medicine, if we are going to let a helpless person starve to death. Since she needed no breathing assistance, the only reason that she is dying is because she is starving, and that is wrong.

I do think that we should have the right to choose for ourselves, but other people deciding for us is not right either.
At the same time, having been through something horrendous, I can attest that a living will may not always be a great idea. The problem is that until you have been though, or are put into the situation, you do not know if you really will want to die, or not. You THINK you do, but really, it becomes an entirely different ballgame, so to speak, when you are there. :shrug:

[jazz]

I think she should be allowed to die, but I don't agree with how they are going about doing it. I wouldn't starve her to death. She should be put to sleep.

thank you.

[Tzarina]

I think she should be allowed to die, but I don't agree with how they are going about doing it. I wouldn't starve her to death. She should be put to sleep.

yeah but letting her dehydrate and starve to death is a horrible way to go...not even criminals on death row get that sentence...


thank you.
Most definatly, I have been ranting about this for a long time to friends and family. I am glad to know I am not the only one concerned with this part of the equation.

[Joga]

I think the whole thing is weird, and I honestly don't know where I stand, because the husband supposedly stands to inherit a good chunk of change from life insurance once she dies. Also, her parents have also supposedly offered him a good chunk of change just to leave her alone, and he's refused. He also wants her cremated immediately, no autopsy, so there's definitely something more going on here than we know.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't want to be kept alive in a situation like this, and it's not like anything will change, given her situation, but I still think it's kind of cruel to let her starve to death. I guess it's hard because I don't know if she's able to feel this or not. If so, then yes, I think it's cruel. If not, then I guess it's not that big of a deal.

It's more the shadiness of her husband that really makes me wonder more than anything else, though.

[Mufumonk]

I think the whole thing is weird, and I honestly don't know where I stand, because the husband supposedly stands to inherit a good chunk of change from life insurance once she dies. Also, her parents have also supposedly offered him a good chunk of change just to leave her alone, and he's refused. He also wants her cremated immediately, no autopsy, so there's definitely something more going on here than we know.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't want to be kept alive in a situation like this, and it's not like anything will change, given her situation, but I still think it's kind of cruel to let her starve to death. I guess it's hard because I don't know if she's able to feel this or not. If so, then yes, I think it's cruel. If not, then I guess it's not that big of a deal.

It's more the shadiness of her husband that really makes me wonder more than anything else, though.

I'm no doctor, but I doubt an autopsy is going to show anything shady after 15 years.

[Pudie]

After all the fees , taxes , etc the husband would get something arounf $50K. Not worth killing your wife over.

yeah but letting her dehydrate and starve to death is a horrible way to go...not even criminals on death row get that sentence...

Can you think of a better , legal , way for that to happen? And it's no less wrong then letting her live if she would have wanted her to die. She has nothing to live for and keeping her alive and in this situation does nothing for the family.

[Parabola7001]

that bed could be used for someone else. Now that fucker just died

[toolgemini]

the purpose of life is to grow
to experinece
to feel...
i doubt she is doing any of the above
and i think it is pointless
if i was in the same state
i would like to be put away

[Joga]

I totally agree with that.

I just hope she can't feel anything right now, because dehydration would not be a pleasant way to go.

[KenKill75]

Apparently my statement earlier was misinterpreted. My point was that she definitely should be allowed to die. I was trying to imply that the term "allowed" is an insult to me. That no one should force someone to live. Not to get into an abortion debate, but why should it be legal to kill your unborn child but illegal to kill yourself, or be permitted to have a life like that that put to an end? Thats a rhetorical question, no need to respond to it. Im just trying to make a point.

[Pudie]

Makes much more sense. I agree with that.

[iha]

I don't think the Federal government should be able to tell her if she has the right to die or not. I think that is something that her husband, who is her power of attorney, should decide. Especially since she supposedly had told him before that she would not want to be kept alive like she is now.

[Darken Elise]

Pudie! You suck! This topic is all over the news sites, the radio, the TV, I can't escape it and you go and defile encircling by starting a Teri Shiavo thread!!! You dog!!!

I don't think I would want to live like she is, even if, by some stretch of the imagination, she's completely aware of her surroundings. can you imagine being trapped in a body and having no way to even communicate with your loved ones?!!? Screw that.

[EtchedInCold]

Same here. So let this be known:
If I happen to end up in a similar situation, kill me.
and use this post as proof of my wish.

[Mufumonk]

Living Wills are your friend.

[B]

Veggie Tales!

[Pudie]

Same here. So let this be known:
If I happen to end up in a similar situation, kill me.
and use this post as proof of my wish.
Word. Add me to that.

YOU HEAR THAT!?!?

If I end up like that LET ME DIE!

[greg]

:ak: :tard:

:bravo:

[iha]

Same here. So let this be known:
If I happen to end up in a similar situation, kill me.
and use this post as proof of my wish.
Ok. I bet a post on some private message boards would hold up in case fine. :crackup: :sniper:

[Heath]

This is why you create a document saying that if you're ever in that sort of state, you don't want to live anymore. However, it is completely wrong to let her starve to death. I don't see why she can't just be put to sleep instead of possibly suffering for weeks before she dies.

[Jazmyne]

No one should be starved to death. I find that really wrong. I agree with you hhoneycutt, there probably is a better way to end her life. From the video Ive seen of her, it doesnt seem like shes even in a vegitative state. She can move her eyes, look around, laugh....

[iha]

supposedly she's not aware of her surroundings... so she probably won't even realize she is starving to death. I would like to think it's more of just her body not being able to keep herself alive anymore. It's really impossible to know w/ out being her I guess. It's a really sad story though :(

[Godless]

Veggie Tales!
:lmao:

[iha]

Anyone see John Stewart talk about it? pretty funny :)

http://www.edwardsdavid.com/BushVideos/dailyshow_schiavo_congressional_meddle_050321-01.rm

[B]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v335/burningsosobra/veggietales.jpg

[mud_]

question:

why the fuck is/did GWB poking his nose into this?

is anyone else cynical enough to think that its all something along the lines of the court (whatever the highest in US is) making a point about euthanasia? maybe to try and change SOME peoples minds about it, maybe to try and stop SOME people taking their "right-to-die" through the courts?

like:
"ok all you bleeding heart hippies, you want euthanasia, you got it....BUT, it aint gonna be pretty"

or maybe its just me

[CloserToGod]

Crash an airplane into the hospital room. Problem solved, no fuss.

[... Scott]

The problem with this whole thing is that it has been turned into some right wing moral crusade. Poli tit tions should keep thier noses out of the private citizens business. This womans quality of life is 0 and keeping someone in that state alive is wrong (even if that does offend the morals of certain people). Synapses cannot heal themselves she is not going to be the subject of divine intervention any time soon.
But on the other hand I fully agree with the living will concept (I have one) and it seems this lady does not. It's a tough call that I would not like to have to make, so I won,t.



George you starter for 10 points is : Are you the devil in disquise (oh yes you are ! , the devil in disquise... hmmm hmm hmmm hmmm)

:pink:

[Pudie]

This is why you create a document saying that if you're ever in that sort of state, you don't want to live anymore. However, it is completely wrong to let her starve to death. I don't see why she can't just be put to sleep instead of possibly suffering for weeks before she dies.
because being put to sleep is illegal. You'd think theyd at least give her drugs to knock her out or something though.

[Heath]

I know it's illegal, but I'm saying it shouldn't be in certain situations.

And surely they're giving her endless doses of morphene.

[paygee]

The problem with this whole thing is that it has been turned into some right wing moral crusade. Poli tit tions should keep thier noses out of the private citizens business. This womans quality of life is 0 and keeping someone in that state alive is wrong (even if that does offend the morals of certain people). Synapses cannot heal themselves she is not going to be the subject of divine intervention any time soon.
But on the other hand I fully agree with the living will concept (I have one) and it seems this lady does not. It's a tough call that I would not like to have to make, so I won,t.


doesnt everything..fucking pathetic..

[Mufumonk]

When seeing this, I couldn't help but think of Bill Hicks......"Pro-lifers killing people".


Man arrested in alleged Schiavo case murder plot (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/25/arrest.schiavo/index.html)

U.S. attorneys: He offered bounty for judge, Michael Schiavo
Friday, March 25, 2005 Posted: 10:58 PM EST (0358 GMT)


(CNN) -- Authorities said a North Carolina man was arrested Friday by FBI agents on charges of soliciting the murder of a judge and the husband of Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged woman at the center of a legal and moral tug of war.

Authorities said Richard Alan Meywes of Fairview, North Carolina, offered $250,000 for the killing of Michael Schiavo and another $50,000 for the death of Circuit Court Judge George Greer, who ordered Schiavo's feeding tube removed a week ago.

Meywes was arrested without incident at his home about 5 p.m. on charges of solicitation of murder and sending threatening communications, authorities said.

He is expected to make an initial appearance Monday in U.S. District Court in Asheville. He will remain in the custody of U.S. marshals until then, authorities said.

A conviction on the charges could bring up to 15 years in prison and up to $500,000 in fines.

The charges were announced by the two lead prosecutors on the case: Paul Perez, U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Florida; and Gretchen Shappert, U.S. attorney for the Western District of North Carolina.

An affidavit filed in support of the charges alleges that Meywes wrote an e-mail Tuesday that said a "bounty with a price tag of $250,000 has been taken out on the head of Michael Schiavo." It also alleges he said an "additional $50,000 has been offered for the elimination of the judge who ruled against Terry in Florida," an apparent reference to Terri Schiavo.

The affidavit also says the same e-mail refers to the recent killings of a judge in Atlanta and family members of a federal judge in Chicago.

Greer, a Pinellas County circuit judge, has been under the protection of two U.S. marshals at all times in recent weeks due to increased threats against his life by those unhappy with his handling of the Schiavo case.

"Mr. Meywes' use of the Internet to convey threats and solicit violent acts is a clear violation of federal law," Perez said in a written statement.

"Regardless of any one person's stance on the complex and heartfelt issues involved in Ms. Schiavo's case, the matter must be resolved within the bounds of our democratic system and rule of law," the statement read. "The use of threats and other scare tactics cannot and will not be tolerated."

Shappert said, "Threats made in interstate commerce will not be ignored by federal law enforcement."

Authorities said the case was a joint investigation by the FBI's Tampa and Charlotte offices, and the Sheriff's Department of Pinellas County, Florida.

[Tzarina]

"Pro-lifers killing people".
I'm laughing when I probably shouldn't be :hmmm:

fucking idiot :nono:

[mud_]

nah...its funny

especially when he talks about their appearances

and pro-life, non-smokers and how much he'd like to hang out with them

etc etc
you should get (coughdownloadcough) some bill hicks

[Tzarina]

nah...its funny

especially when he talks about their appearances

and pro-life, non-smokers and how much he'd like to hang out with them

etc etc
you should get (coughdownloadcough) some bill hicks
I didn't mean I shouldn't be laughing at hicks :hmmm:

I meant while reading the story... :blush:

[KenKill75]

Just put a bullet in her head or hit her over the head with a frying pan or something and get this shit over with already.

[dirty clown]

I'm one of those people who believes that polititians don't do anything unless it holds some personal gain for them. It's none of their business, just like it isn't anyone's business except the people in the family. No one's ever going to know what Terri wants.

Question: Do the parents pay the hospital bills or does Michael?

[Tzarina]

^Yes the parents have payed the bills, incurred the expenses, and even offered to pay him the life insurance value, this is SO not about money... unless he is one greedy mother effer...

I'm just going to say that every morning I wake up, every morning it's on the news that this poor woman is starving to death and is still not dead, so every morning I cry...:crying:

[KenKill75]

Every morning I still dont give a fuck :shrug2:

[Pudie]

Yea .. I check the news all the time to see if she died yet.

[KenKill75]

Well arent you all just so friggin compassionate. :barf2:

[Tzarina]

Well arent you all just so friggin compassionate. :barf2:
:hmmm:
Every morning I still dont give a fuck :shrug2:

Compassion and empathy are a GOOD thing Ken...

[KenKill75]

For all you know she's sitting there thrilled to the gills that she's on death's door. Be happy for her.

[Tzarina]

For all you know she's sitting there thrilled to the gills that she's on death's door. Be happy for her.
unfortunatly, the reports do not indicate this... they indicate she is "communicating" and apparently suffering... :crying: Starving someone is SO wrong, cruel and inhumane? We let Richard Ramirez live, marry, and hump since they decided in CA the death penalty is cruel and unusal, but we watch a woman starve to death cause her husband doesn't want to deal anymore? WTF?

And I will also add that really watching someone die, take their last breaths, and leave life is one of the most horrid and traumatic expiriences one can suffer... I have nightmares often reliving watching that over and over... I can not even begin to imagine how this womans family must feel watching this... it will haunt them the rest of their lives...

[KenKill75]

Just because she's suffering doesnt mean she isnt glad she is dying. Two separate issues. Living the way she was probably was suffering too. Im not for the starvation thing either. I say just put her to sleep nice and quick. But as far as forcing her to keep living, I think thats a crock of shit.

[Tzarina]

Just because she's suffering doesnt mean she isnt glad she is dying. Two separate issues. Living the way she was probably was suffering too. Im not for the starvation thing either. I say just put her to sleep nice and quick. But as far as forcing her to keep living, I think thats a crock of shit.
but, until you are that person, you do not know. We can assume we would not want to live, but that changes, I know from expirience.

This is why it can not be left up to other people whether one lives or dies... and THAT is what has happened here, she has never asked or begged to die... so how do we know? And remember the opnly thing that this woman needed to survive was a feeding tube, this woman is not a veggie hooked up to life support, big difference. My best friend from high school developed a brain tumor and died soon after my accident. All they had to do was turn her machines off... BIG DIFFERENCE!

--and just why can't I type without like 30 typos to edit? :hmm:

[KenKill75]

:sleep: :yawn: :oedi:

[Tzarina]

:shame:

[KenKill75]

:ak::shame::sniper:

[Tzarina]

Update just released...
[Federal appeals court OKs Schiavo review
PINELLAS PARK, Fla. (AP) — A federal appeals court agreed to consider an emergency bid by Terri Schiavo's parents for a new hearing on whether to reconnect her feeding tube, raising their fading hopes of keeping the severely brain-damaged woman alive.
In its order late Tuesday, the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals didn't say when it would decide whether to grant the hearing. It was not clear what effect reconnecting Terri Schiavo's feeding tube would have on her, as she approached her 13th day without nourishment. As of early Wednesday afternoon, no further word had come from the appeals court.

The Tuesday order issued allowed Bob and Mary Schindler to file the appeal, even though the court had set a March 26 deadline for doing so.

Its one-sentence order said: "The Appellant's emergency motion for leave to file out of time is granted." Three times last week, the court ruled against the Schindlers.

In requesting a new hearing, the Schindlers argued that a federal judge in Tampa should have considered the entire state court record and not whether previous Florida court rulings met legal standards under state law. It also stated that the Atlanta federal appellate court didn't consider whether there was enough "clear and convincing" evidence that Terri Schiavo would have chosen to die in her current condition.

Attorneys for the Schindlers didn't immediately return phone messages Wednesday. George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, declined to comment.

Time was running out for Schiavo, however. Bob Schindler described his daughter on Tuesday as "failing."

"She still looks pretty darn good under the circumstances," Schindler said. "You can see the impact of no food and water for 12 days. Her bodily functions are still working. We still have her."

Doctors have said Schiavo, 41, would probably die within two weeks after the tube was removed March 18. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, insists he is carrying out her wishes by having the feeding tube pulled.

The request for a new hearing also asks to have the tube reinserted immediately "in light of the magnitude of what is at stake and the urgency of the action required."

The order was a ray of hope for the Schindlers, who are battling their son-in-law over their daughter's fate. The case has wound its way through six courts for seven years; the U.S. Supreme Court declined to intervene five times.

Legal experts say the Schindlers shouldn't read too much into the court's latest decision.

"I would not read that to mean there is a likelihood relief will be granted," said Atlanta attorney Craig Gillen. "The court is saying, 'We'll let you ask us for en banc.' That's it."

Another Atlanta attorney, Robert Schroeder, said the court is simply acting to make sure every legal argument has been aired.

"Basically the court is just saying that if you think we've made a mistake, we want to consider all legal arguments that might be out there," Schroeder said. "It is not saying there are more legal arguments out there."

Protesters keeping a 24-hour vigil outside the hospice praised the latest decision.

"There's a chance for a miracle," said Christine Marriott, who rushed to the hospice after hearing the news on TV. "Anything positive is a breath of life."

Dr. Sean Morrison, a professor of palliative medicine at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, said it's hard to predict what would happen if the tube were reinserted because it's highly unusual to do that after life-prolonging treatments have been stopped.

He said that if her kidneys have already shut down, reinserting the tube at this point might prolong her life by just hours or days. However, it could also hasten her death, Morrison said, because it would supply fluids to a body that can no longer get rid of them.

The resulting fluid buildup could essentially drown Schiavo, and she could die gasping and choking, he said.

Morrison said Schiavo would have no awareness of this because of her persistent vegetative state, but reinserting the tube might "transform a peaceful death into one that can be very distressing for families and friends to witness."

Early Wednesday, a man was arrested when he tried to bring a plastic cup of water into the hospice. Officers stopped him at the gate as he shouted: "You don't know God from Godzilla!"

He became the 48th protester arrested since the tube was removed on a court order sought by her husband. Terri Schiavo suffered catastrophic brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped for several minutes because of a chemical imbalance apparently brought on by an eating disorder.

The Schindlers have maintained that their daughter would want to be kept alive.

Their attorneys raised the issue of the new request after a Saturday deadline set by the court, saying they have had more time to research the issues and have become convinced that the federal court in Tampa had "committed plain error when it reviewed only the state court case and outcome history."

Attorneys for the Schindlers have argued that Terri Schiavo's rights to life and privacy were being violated.

Federal courts were given jurisdiction to review Schiavo's case after Republicans in Congress pushed through unprecedented emergency legislation aimed at prolonging her life. But federal courts at three levels have rebuffed her parents.

Although supporters of the Schindlers have claimed the dehydrated woman is being denied comforts such as ice chips for her dry mouth or balm for chapped lips, Felos defended how Schiavo is being cared for.

"Obviously, the parents and the siblings are desperate. Desperation may lead to different perceptions," Felos told CNN. "I can only tell you what I've seen, and Terri is dying a very peaceful, cared-for death."

On Tuesday, the Rev. Jesse Jackson prayed with the Schindlers and first lady Laura Bush said the government was right to have intervened on behalf of Schiavo.

Jackson was in Tallahassee on Wednesday, and met with Gov. Jeb Bush.

[jazz]

just an aside...

i keep hearing comedy spoofs on terry schiavo on the radio and television. now, i understand that everything gets made fun of sooner or later, but she's dying right now. wtf is wrong with these people, man?

[KenKill75]

They're fucked up. Unlike me. :biggrin:

[Pudie]

but, until you are that person, you do not know. We can assume we would not want to live, but that changes, I know from expirience.

This is why it can not be left up to other people whether one lives or dies... and THAT is what has happened here, she has never asked or begged to die... so how do we know? And remember the opnly thing that this woman needed to survive was a feeding tube, this woman is not a veggie hooked up to life support, big difference. My best friend from high school developed a brain tumor and died soon after my accident. All they had to do was turn her machines off... BIG DIFFERENCE!

--and just why can't I type without like 30 typos to edit? :hmm:
The husband says that she would have wanted to die. The way I see it he's fulfilling his promise.

It the way they are doing it inhumane? Yes , of course. But so is her parents fighting to make her live against her wishes.

Also .. now that the pope has a feeding tube I say we pull that too. It's only right.

[KenKill75]

That Pope dude is shot.

[Godless]

The husband says that she would have wanted to die. The way I see it he's fulfilling his promise.

It the way they are doing it inhumane? Yes , of course. But so is her parents fighting to make her live against her wishes.

Also .. now that the pope has a feeding tube I say we pull that too. It's only right.
YOINK! :bart:

[greg]

i think she died 15 years ago

[Mufumonk]

That Pope dude is shot.


The end is near. He has to hold out for another 363 days.

[EtchedInCold]

she's finally died.

[iha]

she is finally died

[EtchedInCold]

she has finally died.

[iha]

you already said that

[EtchedInCold]

she is finally died
well what was this about. I thought you said this because i said "she's" so i clarified that i meant she has

just disregard everything.

[greg]

she done be dead

[Tzarina]

Also .. now that the pope has a feeding tube I say we pull that too. It's only right.
funny how catholics want to disregard birth control... it's 'unnatural' and yet feeding tubes are not? :hmmm:

Religion = :sheep:

[iha]

People say that taking away her feeding tube is "playing God," but wouldn't giving her a feeding tube in the first place be "playing God" too?

Did anyone see GW speak on this? They said he was going to... but I don't know if he has yet or not. I'd like to know what he says

[Pudie]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush said Thursday that he joins the millions of Americans saddened by the death of Terri Schiavo and urged the country to honor her memory by working to "build a culture of life."

"The essence of civilization is that the strong have a duty to protect the weak," Bush said. "In cases where there are serious doubts and questions, the presumption should be in favor of life."

The Florida woman, who suffered severe brain damage after a heart attack 15 years ago, died Thursday. The feeding tube that had been keeping her alive was removed with a judge's approval on March 18.

Bush offered words of comfort and praise for both Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and her husband, Michael Schiavo.

The two sides had battled in the courts for years over Terri Schiavo's fate, with her parents believing she could improve with treatment and her husband insisting she would not have wished to be kept alive artificially. State court-appointed doctors had ruled Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state, with no real consciousness or chance of recovery.

Bush, despite acting to help the Schindlers, singled out neither side in extending condolences to Schiavo's "families" and said that "millions of Americans" join their sorrow.

"I appreciate the example of grace and dignity they have displayed at a difficult time," the president said. "I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue to work to build a culture of life where all Americans are welcomed and valued and protected, especially those who live at the mercy of others."

Other Washington figures who were deeply involved in the extraordinary federal intervention in Schiavo's case also weighed in on her passing.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, said her death was a "regrettable loss of life" that deeply saddened him. "May God bless her memory," he said.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, called Schiavo's death a "moral poverty and a legal tragedy."

"This loss happened because our legal system did not protect the people who need protection most, and that will change," DeLay said. "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior, but not today. Today we grieve, we pray, and we hope to God this fate never befalls another."

House Judiciary Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wisconsin, called on Congress to pass legislation to help others going through similar legal battles.

"Terri's will to live should serve as an inspiration and impetus for action," Sensenbrenner said.

Last week, Bush said he had run out of legal options to help keep Schiavo alive.

The weekend after Schiavo's feeding tube was removed, GOP leaders in Congress convened a rare session to pass a law handing jurisdiction over the case to the federal courts, after state courts repeatedly rejected pleas from Schiavo's parents to help prolong the woman's life. Bush, acting in a case championed by many of those in his party's conservative base of political support, made a surprise flight back to Washington from his ranch in Crawford, Texas, so he could sign the legislation as soon as it passed in the middle of the night.

But federal courts didn't act as the lawmakers hoped. Up to the highest level, they also repeatedly rebuffed the Schindlers.

On Wednesday, Judge Stanley F. Birch, Jr., a conservative appointed by the former President Bush, wrote a rebuke of Bush and Congress. He said the action by the White House and lawmakers was "demonstrably at odds with our Founding Fathers' blueprint for the governance of a free people -- our Constitution."

Bush's high-profile intervention also drew criticism from the public, a large majority of which was shown in polls to think it was inappropriate. There has even been a split in the conservative community, many of whom revere states' rights and the ability of families to make decisions without federal interference

[iha]

Religion = :sheep:

http://www.encircling.us/forums/image.php?u=2&type=profile&dateline=1107990297

[Pudie]

"This loss happened because our legal system did not protect the people who need protection most, and that will change," DeLay said. "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior, but not today. Today we grieve, we pray, and we hope to God this fate never befalls another."

:eric2:

[Tzarina]

People say that taking away her feeding tube is "playing God," but wouldn't giving her a feeding tube in the first place be "playing God" too?

Did anyone see GW speak on this? They said he was going to... but I don't know if he has yet or not. I'd like to know what he says
you WANT to know? cause i don't care what he says... it's all written for him anyways, and he'll be wishy washy as always... :faint:

[KenKill75]

you WANT to know? cause i don't care what he says... it's all written for him anyways, and he'll be wishy washy as always... :faint:


ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? DEMOCRATS ARE THE REASON WHY THE TERM WISHY WASHY EXISTS!! BUSH IS THE ONLY ONE WITH THE BALLS TO STICK TO HIS FUCKING GUNS. DONT EVEN FUCKING GET ME STARTED ON THAT LIBERAL COCKSUCKING BULLSHIT.
:ar15: :ak: :sniper: :chainsaw: :knight: :plain: :gtfo:

[Parabola7001]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? DEMOCRATS ARE THE REASON WHY THE TERM WISHY WASHY EXISTS!! BUSH IS THE ONLY ONE WITH THE BALLS TO STICK TO HIS FUCKING GUNS. DONT EVEN FUCKING GET ME STARTED ON THAT LIBERAL COCKSUCKING BULLSHIT.
:ar15: :ak: :sniper: :chainsaw: :knight: :plain: :gtfo:
that my friend was uncalled for. Im glad that veggie fuck is dead. :monkey:

[KenKill75]

that my friend was uncalled for. Im glad that veggie fuck is dead. :monkey:


Sure it was called for. She ripped on someone by transferring the traits of others on to him.

and, ummm, my comments are uncalled for, but "Im glad that veggie fuck is dead" is not uncalled for? :what:

[lateraenimate]

She's better off dead... They took her feeding tube away 13 days ago and suffered for 2 weeks... poor hapless son-of-a-bitch...

At least she's permasleep, now...

[Pudie]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? DEMOCRATS ARE THE REASON WHY THE TERM WISHY WASHY EXISTS!! BUSH IS THE ONLY ONE WITH THE BALLS TO STICK TO HIS FUCKING GUNS. DONT EVEN FUCKING GET ME STARTED ON THAT LIBERAL COCKSUCKING BULLSHIT.
:ar15: :ak: :sniper: :chainsaw: :knight: :plain: :gtfo:
Sticking to your guns when youre wrong just makes you a fucking idiot.

[KenKill75]

Sticking to your guns when youre wrong just makes you a fucking idiot.


Being a waffler just makes you a fucking pussy

[Parabola7001]

Sure it was called for. She ripped on someone by transferring the traits of others on to him.

and, ummm, my comments are uncalled for, but "Im glad that veggie fuck is dead" is not uncalled for? :what:
:bsecks:

[KenKill75]

Lets all just get along now. Lets let this die just like the :tard:

[Tzarina]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??? DEMOCRATS ARE THE REASON WHY THE TERM WISHY WASHY EXISTS!! BUSH IS THE ONLY ONE WITH THE BALLS TO STICK TO HIS FUCKING GUNS. DONT EVEN FUCKING GET ME STARTED ON THAT LIBERAL COCKSUCKING BULLSHIT.
:ar15: :ak: :sniper: :chainsaw: :knight: :plain: :gtfo:
Um, I'm not a liberal either Ken, but I don't think any of these politicians will take a clear and consise stand on such a heated issue... you're assuming again... :3rdeye:

[lateraenimate]

Lets all just get along now. Lets let this die just like the :tard:

:pwned:

[Godless]

Lets all just get along now. Lets let this die just like the :tard:
Agreed. :neener:

[iha]

Um, I'm not a liberal either Ken, but I don't think any of these politicians will take a clear and consise stand on such a heated issue... you're assuming again... :3rdeye:
i bet you're more liberal than you are conservative :nod:

[Ryan]

http://www.mobyhealth.com/sub/graphics/dead.gif http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/images/avatars/broccoli.gif


i'm so clever :down:

[Mufumonk]

The husband says that she would have wanted to die. The way I see it he's fulfilling his promise.

It the way they are doing it inhumane? Yes , of course. But so is her parents fighting to make her live against her wishes.

Also .. now that the pope has a feeding tube I say we pull that too. It's only right.


The Pope advocated having the feeding tube put back in for Schiavo, btw.

[jazz]

whatever, it's over...FINALLY.

time to write my will.

[KenKill75]

I wanna be buried in a tomb with all my stuff, like the egyptian kings. :metal2:

[Pudie]

The Pope advocated having the feeding tube put back in for Schiavo, btw.
The pope cant still talk? And people can still understand him?

[Mufumonk]

The pope cant still talk? And people can still understand him?


Being a believer in St. Malachy's prophecies, the Pope is trying to hold out another year. Sadly, it won't happen. But St. Malachy was pretty damn close.

[KenKill75]

Being a believer in St. Malachy's prophecies, the Pope is trying to hold out another year. Sadly, it won't happen. But St. Malachy was pretty damn close.


St. who? Prophecy? :uhhh:

[Mufumonk]

St. who? Prophecy? :uhhh:

St. Malachy. In 1139 he prophesied(sp?) the end of times, and listed all of the Popes that would serve between then and the coming of the Apocalypse. Pope John Paul II believes in these prophecies as do many in the Vatican. He listed 111 popes from 1139 to the end of the world, John Paul II is the 110th. He gave each of them a Motto, John Paul II's being De labore Solis (of the eclipse of the sun).
Karol Wojtyla was born on May 18, 1920 during a solar eclipse. He also comes from behind the former Iron Curtain. He might also be seen to be the fruit of the intercession of the Woman Clothed with the Sun labouring in Revelation 12 (because of his devotion to the Virgin Mary).

Another of his prophecies was that De labore Solis would die on March 29th, 2006. It appears he'll be off by about a year.

[KenKill75]

So when did he prophesize the end of times to be?

[Mufumonk]

So when did he prophesize the end of times to be?

In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oues in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis ciuitas septicollis diruetur, & Iudex tremêdus iudicabit populum suum. Finis.
(In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people. The End.)

Edit: Gloria olivae is the Motto for the 111th Pope. 111 Popes complete their service. It is during the 112th Pope's time that the end of times is supposed to occur. The 112th Pope being Petrus Romanus.

[KenKill75]

I was hoping for a specific date, but oh well :wink:

[Mufumonk]

A few more of his prophecies concerning the list of Pope's:



Clement XIII (reigned 1758-69) is described as “Rose Umbria” (the Rose of Umbria). This Pontiff had been governor of Rieti in Umbria and the symbol of that district was a rose.

His successor Clement XIV (1769-74) appears as “Ursus Velox.” (The Nimble Bear). His coat of arms showed a bear in flight.

The prophecy for Gregory XVI (1813-46) reads “De Balneis Etruriae” (From Balnea in Etruria). This Pontiff belonged to the religious order, the Camaldoli, whose seat is at Balnea in Etruria.

Coming of the Popes of the last century: Pius IX (1846-78) “Crux de Cruce” (Cross from a Cross). The House of Savoy which caused this Pope so much suffering had a cross on its coat of arms.

Leo XIII (1878-1903): “Lumen in Caelo” (Light in the Heavens). His coat of arms showed a shooting star.

Benedict XV (1914-22): Pope of the first World War: “Religio Depopulata” (Religion Devastated).

“De Medietate Lunae” (From the Half of the Moon). Pope John Paul I was born on a half moon, and died on a half moon.

“De Labore Solis” (From the Labor of the Sun). Pope John Paul II was born on a solar eclipse.

“De Gloria Olivae” (From the Glory of the Olive). It's rumored that the next person in line to serve as Pope is of Jewish descent. Throughout the Bible, the Jews are mentioned as descending from the Olive Tree.

[Pudie]

Clement XIII (reigned 1758-69) is described as “Rose Umbria” (the Rose of Umbria). This Pontiff had been governor of Rieti in Umbria and the symbol of that district was a rose.

His successor Clement XIV (1769-74) appears as “Ursus Velox.” (The Nimble Bear). His coat of arms showed a bear in flight.

Coming of the Popes of the last century: Pius IX (1846-78) “Crux de Cruce” (Cross from a Cross). The House of Savoy which caused this Pope so much suffering had a cross on its coat of arms.

Leo XIII (1878-1903): “Lumen in Caelo” (Light in the Heavens). His coat of arms showed a shooting star.




That could just be because of the guys prophecy so they decided to give him a bear , star , whatever.

Very interesting none the less.

[Mufumonk]

That could just be because of the guys prophecy so they decided to give him a bear , star , whatever.

Very interesting none the less.

I considered that as well, but it doesn't explain the accuracy during the 400 years that the transcript was lost in the archives of the Vatican, till 1590.

[Tzarina]

St. Malachy. In 1139 he prophesied(sp?) the end of times, and listed all of the Popes that would serve between then and the coming of the Apocalypse. Pope John Paul II believes in these prophecies as do many in the Vatican. He listed 111 popes from 1139 to the end of the world, John Paul II is the 110th. He gave each of them a Motto, John Paul II's being De labore Solis (of the eclipse of the sun).
Karol Wojtyla was born on May 18, 1920 during a solar eclipse. He also comes from behind the former Iron Curtain. He might also be seen to be the fruit of the intercession of the Woman Clothed with the Sun labouring in Revelation 12 (because of his devotion to the Virgin Mary).

Another of his prophecies was that De labore Solis would die on March 29th, 2006. It appears he'll be off by about a year.
Wow, I :inlove: you... I can't believe you knew about this stuff...

[iha]

Yeah, Mufumonk. That's interesting.. I never knew that stuff.

[jazz]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/04/06/BABADIGEST2.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/04/06/BABADIGEST2.DTL)

U.S. files charges in online Schiavo threat

A San Francisco woman is facing federal charges for allegedly threatening on an online message board to kill the husband of Terri Schiavo, the brain-damaged Florida woman who died Thursday after the removal of her feeding tube.

On March 23, Dera Marie Jones, 32, wrote, "If she dies I will kill Michael Schiavo and the judge. This for real!" on an America Online message board that dealt with the Schiavo case, FBI Special Agent Christopher Sadlowski wrote in an affidavit filed Monday in U.S. District Court in San Francisco.

Jones, who was formerly in a band called fatalblastwhip, told FBI agents that she was "just kidding" when she posted it and that she had to change her screen name because of threats she received because of her message, Sadlowski wrote.

Jones was charged with transmitting in interstate commerce a communication containing a threat to injure a person.

[KenKill75]

For fucks sake, let this thread die like the :tard:

[jazz]

the point was not schiavo, the point was that i'll report you fuckers to the police for shit like this. i already turned MAGO in for flirting with a :sheep:

[KenKill75]

You've got no proof tough guy, and I have a good lawyer...not to mention those mafia connections of his, which im sure you remember. :hmmm:

[jazz]

well, we're sharing political influence, remember that.

[KenKill75]

Just remember Danny, if I ever become a :tard:, put me out of my misery with .44 calibur brain surgery

[jazz]

i'd expect the same in return if (god forbid) i turned out like schiavo.

oh, i own a glock 17, an ar-15, and a s&w 357mag. take your pick.

[KenKill75]

I would be honored to blow your brains out Danny :what:

[jazz]

:roflmao:

now, what gun do you want me to use?

[KenKill75]

Surprise me :wink:

[jazz]

:wookie: okey dokey.

[Tzarina]

Schiavo autopsy finds no sign of abuse
LARGO, Fla. (AP) — An autopsy on Terri Schiavo backed her husband's contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding that she had massive and irreversible brain damage and was blind, the medical examiner's office said Wednesday. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused... :blah:

[Heath]

Shit, any person with common sense could've figured out she wasn't getting any better. I just hope we don't have to hear about all this bullshit again.

[Pudie]

Her brain was also half normal size.

[KenKill75]

Brain damaged...who woulda thunk it :uhhh:

[paygee]

Schiavo autopsy finds no sign of abuse
LARGO, Fla. (AP) — An autopsy on Terri Schiavo backed her husband's contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding that she had massive and irreversible brain damage and was blind, the medical examiner's office said Wednesday. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused... :blah:
shocking :sarcasm:

[Godless]

Now maybe people can :stfu:

[garcia95]

its a sad thing, but i hope the pearents feel like dumb fucks now. because she knew what was going on. ass wads. man, that whole thing pissed me off, im not going to lie. poor woman...

[iha]

they said she died of dehydration... i think.

[Raynoch11]

These "doctors" and their "science". What do they know? So what if they've done thousands of these during their careers, they don't know the difference between dehydration and starvation, nor do they know the difference between PVS and non-PVS.

Terri Schnivno was killed by Michael and then he paid every single judge who looked at the case to rule in his favor, and now he's paid off the coroner. It's all disgusting and I'm ashamed. May god have mercy on all their souls.

[Godless]

:sarcasm: Sure. I think they did the right thing in letting her die.